Pentagrams

crystalcross wrote: Good morning,

I just want to be careful in the direction this discussion has gone. I always try affirm that we can't blame the faith for the actions of the people who follow it. I think if we lived by those rules, there would likely be far less wars.

I personally am Christian, but I also fully believe in spirits, and I am a scientist. So you wanna talk about a constant battlefield, just step into my brain for a moment.

Seriously though, there are so many faiths and belief systems and I personally think most all have a place, and if we look at most of them many are saying the same thing about alot, just with different labels attached.

Now when you have different belief systems there are several things you can do.

#1 - You can choose to ignore all others and pretend they don't exist. (Many do this)
#2 - You can highlight the differences, and attack those differences. (More do this, but it is totally unproductive)

OR

#3 - You can highlight the commonalities, find ways that they are similar, focus on those and try to create a community of people who can work together, learn, and grow. (What we're trying to do here)

I try to choose road #3. I personally think there is much beauty and validity in other belief systems. Since it was mentioned above, the Wiccan system especially. But many others as well. I think our time is spent so much better by acceptance and looking forward rather than back.

Looking forward is for living, looking back is for research.

I understand where you are coming from CC, but at points we will have to agree to disagree. The reason being that when lies and misconceptions are given to the masses that are in fact centuries old, false doctrines/belief systems can be the end result.

I'm talking about the pentagram here BTW. We must examine the past in order to move forward to the future with the truth.

I respect any faith that anyone supports. That being said, I think discussions can be a good thing where false ideas were given that are counterproductive to the evolution of the soul. When we discuss the history of a particular doctrine, we in no ways are attacking today's believers of that particular faith, but are attempting to show that the fallacy that came from centuries ago should be exposed and people enlightened. Just my 2 cents.

Everything is seen and interrupted by different people in different ways. People looking at a cloud, painting or some other object see different things. Those that want to find fault can even argue over the color paint used on ones home. Religious ideals are the same, created by man, interrupted by man. Cup 1/2 full vs. cup 1/2 empty.

You're right, many symbols and by that fact even belief systems, ideals, and parables have been around for a VERY VERY long time. I'm right with you on that one.

Like I said, not trying to insult anyone at all. The teachings and dogma are perfectly legit. Don't kill, don't steal, don't cheat...all good practice across the board. Most though, don't realize that certain symbol is much older than the Christian faith, many thousands of years older and were eventually incorporated into it. Of course, Christians are not alone, because Romans borrowed from the Greeks, who borrowed from the Egyptians, who borrowed from Sumeria, the Phoneticians, Arabs, etc etc etc since the beginning of humankind.

Good morning,

I just want to be careful in the direction this discussion has gone. I always try affirm that we can't blame the faith for the actions of the people who follow it. I think if we lived by those rules, there would likely be far less wars.

I personally am Christian, but I also fully believe in spirits, and I am a scientist. So you wanna talk about a constant battlefield, just step into my brain for a moment.

Seriously though, there are so many faiths and belief systems and I personally think most all have a place, and if we look at most of them many are saying the same thing about alot, just with different labels attached.

Now when you have different belief systems there are several things you can do.

#1 - You can choose to ignore all others and pretend they don't exist. (Many do this)
#2 - You can highlight the differences, and attack those differences. (More do this, but it is totally unproductive)

OR

#3 - You can highlight the commonalities, find ways that they are similar, focus on those and try to create a community of people who can work together, learn, and grow. (What we're trying to do here)

I try to choose road #3. I personally think there is much beauty and validity in other belief systems. Since it was mentioned above, the Wiccan system especially. But many others as well. I think our time is spent so much better by acceptance and looking forward rather than back.

Looking forward is for living, looking back is for research.

Wiccan pentagrams are one point up....

The evil ones are two points up, representing the horns and the one point down representing the beard of the common vision of Satan, or the main evil, as I refer to it.

TressesOfNephthys wrote:

Steven Matrix wrote: The pentagram has been mainly demonized by the church IMHO. Unfortunately, centuries of lies have a strong effect on the masses.

Christianity has been stealing from Pagans and demonizing what they couldn't steal since the times of the Roman Empire. Christmas tree--pagan. Madonna and Child symbolitry--pagan. Just to name a few. Not trying to knock anyone's religion here. But it's well known that Christian conquerors won over Roman, Celtic and Nordic pagans by incorporating familiar symbolitry into the new religion being introduced to them.

You are correct Tress. Maybe CC even remembers the church in Melbourne that had a solar cross at the top of their architecture. They recently had it removed within the last several months. I think someone found out that the solar cross is an old pagan symbol.

You also mention a good point, "Christian conquerors". The commandments say "Do not kill", which translated means "do not murder" if I'm correct. A look into history would reveal a lot if people researched it.

Steven Matrix wrote: The pentagram has been mainly demonized by the church IMHO. Unfortunately, centuries of lies have a strong effect on the masses.

Christianity has been stealing from Pagans and demonizing what they couldn't steal since the times of the Roman Empire. Christmas tree--pagan. Madonna and Child symbolitry--pagan. Just to name a few. Not trying to knock anyone's religion here. But it's well known that Christian conquerors won over Roman, Celtic and Nordic pagans by incorporating familiar symbolitry into the new religion being introduced to them.

Hmm lemme see: I have a book of symbols in front of me lol.

The Hexagram, aka Star of David. Also known as the Shield of David or Solomon's seal by the Muslim faith. It is also the alchemic symbol for alcohol, the downward facing triangle representing water, and the upward fire. Fire water. Also mentions a book of witchcraft called The Key of Solomon for which the hexagram is used for a symbol in magical formulas. Since the middle ages it has been the symbol of the Jewish people. In blue, it has been the symbol for the country of Israel since 1948.

The Pentagram (upward facing) has been in use for at least 6000 years. It was a common sign among the Sumerians from around 2700 BCE and is believed to represent the four corners of the earth and a vault in heaven. In Pythagorean mysticism, it is thought of as the form of the human being. They used it as a symbol of a wish of good health. It is also used as a symbol for Solomon's Seal/Shield in Jewish mysticism. The Pentagram is sometimes known as the Eastern Star, a twin to the Morning Star. It was during the Middle Ages that the Pentagram became associated with magic and the devil. In Nordic countries, it was drawn on doors to ward off trolls and evil. When the Pentagram is inverted, it is associated with the devil and evil. The five points in that case would represent the goat's head of Satan. This is sometimes known as a Pentacle.

I am roughly paraphrasing a book called "Dictionary of Symbols" by Carl G. Liungman. Hope this helps with some clarification.

The pentagram has been mainly demonized by the church IMHO. Unfortunately, centuries of lies have a strong effect on the masses.